Well, there is a cure ... but is will cost you your balls

Otherwise intersting Video, but I wonder why there is no topical or oral dutasterid mentioned.
Also I do not belive that generics froma reliable brand (no, not from a Internet shop in China) is just as good as the brand.

Sei nicht so needy und aufdringlich... total unangenehm - sorry. Vielleicht kommt er dann ja wieder zurück. Er hat ja mehrere Projekte, da kann es mal zu Verzögerungen kommen, da es hier nicht seine A Priorität hat. Ist doch ganz normal....

joe,

it´s always great to watch your educational videos including your great sense of humour and which keeps sprinkling through from time to time and all of a sudden

and this time i also had to laugh out loudly post video wise whilst reading your german post that must have gotten a tiny bit distorted during the automated translation process.

since your german language skill is still in the early learning stage - as far as i can see it - i better retranslate the relevant passage of your post into english whilst using google translate:

"I did not mention current dutasteride or mouth because the video was already fifteen minutes long."


in term of the content of your video:

you dispute the effectiveness of topical finasteride compared to oral finasteride. drs. cole and insalaco come to a different conclusion. what do you think of what is being said in this video?:

https://livestream.com/forhair/events/8078988/videos/170868118

the narrative about topical finasteride gets going first at about 9.00, later with hands-on examples starting at around 17.00

in terms of no relevant side effects i found this link trying to provide more scientific proof and evidence. your comment on this one?:

https://www.minoxidilmax.com/topical-finasteride-review-results-side-effects

in cutting out on sugar / carbohydrate, processed food, artificial supplements and rather concentrating on a balanced diet with stronger focus on organically grown food -

in this one i couldn´t agree stronger as it not only helps your hair to look healthier. it helps your whole body to be healthier.

hi joe,

it has been quite a long time now since your last comment. and your further contribution is urgently needed since there have been important questions raised for you to be answered. and just to remind you that you promised to answer any outstanding questions

so, what´s the matter with you? has anybody been angry towards you? or are you just bored with those stupid german guys? or do you rather prefer to be only active when it comes to promoting your own stuff? or have you simply forgotten about us? or maybe have you taken time out of the entire ht universe? or have you fallen seriously ill and are not able to write anymore? or...

anyway, i think many people here in this forum would very much like to further hear your valued opinion.

many thanks in advance for letting us know, joe!

From time to time I am forced to spend time with my wife and my dog:)

I think the studies are weak.

Three studies were referenced in the article you linked to.

1. Study one was using 18 participants, six of which were taking topical finasteride. The number of participants alone would disqualify this as being legitimate, but it also admittedly involves the use of a "proprietary" formulation. This as well invalidates the legitimacy and it comes down to being nothing more than marketing.

2. Study two is comparing topical minoxidil vs. topical finasteride with minoxidil. It is not comparing oral versus topical finasteride so it is not a study that applies to the question of oral vs. topical finasteride.

3. Study three has group A being given topical finasteride gel while group B was given oral finasteride tablets AND a topical gel that was a placebo. I don't think this is the right way to do a comparative study because even with placebo alone postive effects can and have been recorded in various kinds of studies worldwide. The proper way do do this would to be to not introduce a placebo with the group taking tablets. Regardless, the study showed that in this particular situation there was no benefit with either approach.

In summary, no study your article referenced proves a thing and the additional information referenced had nothing to corroborate the claims.

Dr. Cole and Dr. Insalaco's observations are about a topical gel formulation from Milan, Italy that I'm very familiar with. I've seen great results with it, and I've seen side effects with it and I've seen bad results with it, all from patients that have contacted met to relay their own experiences. So far, to date, there is nothing that indicates topical is as good as tablet finasteride and certainly nothing indicates it is better. My statement remains.

Dr. Cole and Dr. Insalaco's observations are about a topical gel formulation from Milan, Italy that I'm very familiar with. I've seen great results with it, and I've seen side effects with it and I've seen bad results with it, all from patients that have contacted met to relay their own experiences. So far, to date, there is nothing that indicates topical is as good as tablet finasteride and certainly nothing indicates it is better. My statement remains.

Joe Tillman schrieb am Sun, 27 May 2018 21:09

I think the studies are weak.

Three studies were referenced in the article you linked to.

1. Study one was using 18 participants, six of which were taking topical finasteride. The number of participants alone would disqualify this as being legitimate, but it also admittedly involves the use of a "proprietary" formulation. This as well invalidates the legitimacy and it comes down to being nothing more than marketing.

2. Study two is comparing topical minoxidil vs. topical finasteride with minoxidil. It is not comparing oral versus topical finasteride so it is not a study that applies to the question of oral vs. topical finasteride.

3. Study three has group A being given topical finasteride gel while group B was given oral finasteride tablets AND a topical gel that was a placebo. I don't think this is the right way to do a comparative study because even with placebo alone postive effects can and have been recorded in various kinds of studies worldwide. The proper way do do this would to be to not introduce a placebo with the group taking tablets. Regardless, the study showed that in this particular situation there was no benefit with either approach.

In summary, no study your article referenced proves a thing and the additional information referenced had nothing to corroborate the claims.

Dr. Cole and Dr. Insalaco's observations are about a topical gel formulation from Milan, Italy that I'm very familiar with. I've seen great results with it, and I've seen side effects with it and I've seen bad results with it, all from patients that have contacted met to relay their own experiences. So far, to date, there is nothing that indicates topical is as good as tablet finasteride and certainly nothing indicates it is better. My statement remains.

thanks for your statement. i´ve again checked the 3 mentioned studies:

1. study 1:
as i understand it this study compared the efficacy of a modified, proprietary topical finasteride to the efficacy of classical, oral finasteride.

the result of it was that this proprietary, topical finasteride had reduced the level of dht more than compared to classical finasteride after the testing period. since dht is responsible for the loss of hair it looks as if this proprietary drug seems to do a better job. at least in the short term.

using a proprietary drug doesn´t invalidate a study per se, joe. of course, the small number of volunteers indicates that more extensive studies need to be done with many more people. i am not quite sure, what the minimum requirement for that is when it comes to scientific validation.


2. study 2:
you are correct - this study only indicates that minox plus topical finasteride is more effecive than minox on its own.

3. study 3:
group a was given topical fin plus placebo tablets
group b was given oral fin plus placebo gel

the study however doesn´t tell whether the volunteers were told what those placebo tablets / placebo gel actually contained:

group a: placebo tablet = supposedly oral fin?
group b: placebo gel = supposedly topical fin?

so, to me it's impossible to gauge the placebo effect in this test. but since dht is a hormone i see the placebo effect - if there is any at all - as not very significant :

unless you are a true guru hormones can't be that much manipulated just through your belief system.

anyway:
my first impression of the study is that the effect of oral and topical finasteride seem to be the same.

the study however doesn´t tell whether the volunteers were told what those placebo tablets / placebo gel actually contained:

einstein wrote on Sun, 06 May 2018 14:03

Dr. Cole and Dr. Insalaco's observations are about a topical gel formulation from Milan, Italy that I'm very familiar with. I've seen great results with it, and I've seen side effects with it and I've seen bad results with it, all from patients that have contacted met to relay their own experiences. So far, to date, there is nothing that indicates topical is as good as tablet finasteride and certainly nothing indicates it is better. My statement remains.

i understand that this gel is another modified, proprietary topical fin - probably different to the previously mentioned one in study 1.

so, what you are saying is:

1. you have seen side effects of this product even though dr. cole publicly stated in this video that there is no side effect. in other words, cole seems to lie.

2. you have seen bad results which means that the application of this topical fin either didn't have any effect on the (re-) growth of hair or maybe even worse. is that correct? please correct me if i misunderstood you.

please don't get me wrong:

i am not at all an advocate of cole et al. rather, i am more interested in finding out more about:

the truth

Study 1. I think it would be shortsighted to assume that general statements would apply to specific circumstances that are outside of normal or general discussions. "Topical finasteride" is a general reference so if one company has devised a way to make finasteride more effective topically, compared to tablets, then so be it but this would represent an exception, not a rule. But as I said, the number of participants makes the "study" insignificant and meaningless if only six people were taking the real product. I fail to see how anyone can disagree with this unless they think hope applies to the masses.

Study 2. Of course, and I fully agree with what they "discovered" as this is common sense. We already know that both work better together, topically or otherwise, compared to minoxidil alone and we already know that topical finasteride is effective to some degree. This study was a waste of time.

Study 3.
Quote:

the study however doesn´t tell whether the volunteers were told what those placebo tablets / placebo gel actually contained:

Of course they were not told. Neither the clinicians or the patients knew what they were taking, but they DID know what they were taking it for. That is the definition of a "double blind study". But if you do not know what the "placebo effect" is then you should educate yourself further.

The placebo effect has caused similar outcomes in various studies that mimicked outcomes reached by study participants that have received the active ingredient being studied. In one of the Propecia studies published using almost 2000 patients, 7% of the placebo group had improvements in hair counts. It is a small percentage, but a percentage that cannot be denied and is directly attributed to the placebo effect. In addition, side effects with placebo patients existed as well, further supporting the mind/body connection. This is just a small example but it is, again, a scientific fact that the placebo effect exists.

It is because of this, the conclusion by study #3 that there was no significant difference, and the overall information from the three studies you reference, that the proof of topical finasteride's superiority over finasteride tablets is invalidated.

In one of the Propecia studies published using almost 2000 patients, 7% of the placebo group had improvements in hair counts. It is a small percentage, but a percentage that cannot be denied and is directly attributed to the placebo effect.